Jocelyn Hardy, Mailchimp — On Why Customer Obsession Should Guide Every Email You Send

Quick Answer

What’s the simplest way to build stronger relationships with your email subscribers?

Short answer: Don’t overthink email. Just show up consistently and be human. Even a simple newsletter keeps you top of mind, builds trust, and makes customers more likely to choose you when they’re ready to buy.

Why it matters: Your customers aren’t waking up thinking about your business. But an email can feel like a friendly nudge — a reminder you’re there when they need you. Whether you run an e-commerce shop, a single brick-and-mortar store, or multiple locations, regular emails are one of the easiest and most effective ways to spark loyalty and increase sales.

Few people speak about email (and us email geeks) with as much infectious energy as Jocelyn Hardy, Senior Manager of Community Education at Mailchimp. Jocelyn has spent more than 15 years teaching marketers how to connect with their audiences, build trust, and keep their email deliverability strong.

In this conversation, she shares why email is still the best way to build lasting customer relationships. For Jocelyn, procrastination is the one thing to avoid – and testing is something you can never do enough of. 

Above all, she believes you shouldn’t overthink email. Just be authentic, and be human.

In this interview, you’ll learn:

• Why even small, consistent campaigns can make a big difference for loyalty
• How clean data and strong email deliverability keep results on track
• Why “just do it” beats waiting for the perfect moment
• Why testing content and CTAs should be second nature
• How honesty and vulnerability can make your emails resonate more

Wait until you meet Jocelyn Hardy. 

You can also watch our interview below!

I was looking at my inbox this morning and I feel like you can sometimes pick up on the emotion of whoever wrote the email. There are certain emails where I’ve never met this person in real life, but I feel like I know them. What kind of mindset do you think works best for email marketers? What do you see that really connects?

The mindset I think is best is just having curiosity. Asking, what can we try that’s different? Can we experiment? We talked a little bit about experimentation on the last webinar we were on. But it’s about being willing to try something, to be authentic, to really represent the brand you’re trying to portray.

At Mailchimp, we have a value called customer-obsessed. You have to be obsessed with your customers. Being as authentic as you possibly can goes a long way. We’re still humans at the end of the day. And when you said you picked up on emotions, I think that’s what really matters: figuring out how you can connect and build relationships through email.

Why customer obsession drives successful email marketing

Customer obsession! I like that. When I was a kid, I worked at a grocery store we have here in the Southeast – I’m sure you’re familiar with Publix. Almost every day they’d remind us: other grocery stores have customer service, but here we have customer intimacy. You need to go the extra mile. That was their philosophy. So when you talk about Mailchimp being about customer obsession, it reminds me of that.

Yeah, it’s about putting yourself in the customer’s shoes. That’s really what it comes down to. 

If you’re on the other end and you’re receiving an email you don’t want, it doesn’t feel great. You already have a million things to do. That’s why I believe in segmentation. I know it sounds like a big buzzword, but it really makes a difference. You’re able to put yourself in the shoes of someone you’re targeting, instead of just sending a big bulk message to everyone.

That’s what I love about email marketing – it all makes sense. Personalization, being audience-first, all of that plays a huge role. When you sit in the customer’s shoes and look at your inbox, you want to feel like, this one is for me. Out of the million emails you could get, you’ll choose the one that feels personal.

Mailchimp has taught me that over the years, and it goes beyond email. Being customer-obsessed starts with email, but it also shows up in support, in advertising, and in every touchpoint. You have to build that same level of consistency and, like you said, intimacy across the whole customer lifecycle. That’s the part I really love.

Related: Most people (46%) open an email because the sender has been consistently sending them good emails. See the latest email marketing statistics that help you write better emails.

When people think about email marketing platforms, Mailchimp is usually the first one they mention. You can even be driving through Atlanta and see a Mailchimp billboard, which is astonishing. It’s clearly the most recognizable email service platform. 

What makes Mailchimp stand out? 

I think we’re homegrown in Atlanta – that’s where we started, that’s where our headquarters are, and that’s where I started, seriously, 15 years ago. But Mailchimp really built this brand on email. All these other platforms have tried to expand, and we’ve expanded too, but we really got into the weeds on email: understanding what it takes to get into the inbox and what it means to connect with customers.

When I first started in support, I got trained on email deliverability, like how to make sure your list is clean. That’s really what it’s about: making sure you have the right audience and all the components that make a real difference. A lot of times, it might be just a couple of people’s jobs to manage email, but these details matter.

Atlanta, Mailchimp, and our brand have been able to connect with people all over the world – all shapes, sizes, colors, ages. It’s been a really fun and inclusive brand. We talk a lot about email, but it really goes beyond email. It’s about creating a sense of belonging.

Learning and teaching at Mailchimp: “I’m a student at heart”

And what about you personally? What is it like for you to be working at Mailchimp?

I’m a student at heart. I love to learn, and Mailchimp is always teaching me how to do something differently. I didn’t think I would come here and learn so much about email deliverability, but it really makes a difference – making sure your emails are clean, making sure you have a permission-based audience. I didn’t expect this would become something I enjoy talking about even outside of work.

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It also means empowering businesses to do something different, to reach people beyond one-to-one interactions, and even reach people while they sleep. We talk a lot about automations, and I just can’t get enough. Mailchimp has taught me how to be a lifelong learner, a student in every sense.

You’ve talked about being a student – do you also see yourself as a teacher?

Yeah, I try to teach what I learn. I’m not a gatekeeper. Everything I learn, I just share it.

I ran an experiment with my Gmail to see which companies I buy from most. It turns out I buy from the ones that send newsletters, like Atlanta Barber Supply. What advice would you give to a business that isn’t sending emails yet?

Oh, man, you gotta nudge those folks! You have to do it. We don’t wake up every day thinking about getting our hair cut, or thinking about what our barber product supplier is doing. Just keep me top of mind every now and then.

We did a report called The Science of Customer Loyalty, and it shows how an email is just a little tap on the shoulder, a little nudge. Even if you’re not trying to get someone to buy something, it’s nice to check in and build a relationship. It’s like a real relationship. You just nudge that person, and when they actually need to solve a problem, they might come to you because you’ve been connecting and building that relationship.

I think it’s essential, even if it’s just once a month or once a quarter. Start small, build it up, and keep nudging. Those relationships get stronger and stronger. And eventually people think, I know that person, or they might even refer someone else just because you sent a newsletter that day. It’s that simple.

“What’s the point of sending email if it’s not going to reach the inbox?”

You mentioned email deliverability. How important is it to make sure your data is accurate and your list is clean?

Pew! What’s the point of sending email if it’s not going to reach the inbox? It’s huge. And what’s the point of sending email if you’re not communicating properly? I don’t want anybody on my list who doesn’t want to be there.

If someone signs up for your email list, that’s a big deal. It means they want to hear from you, they want to stay in the loop. They may not purchase right away – maybe that’s not even your goal – but it’s about building a relationship, staying in touch, and connecting, which is wonderful. They could have chosen anyone else, but they took the step to double opt-in, confirming they want to be there.

I’d rather have a list of 20 real fans than 2,000 or 200,000. That organic engagement leads to really good email deliverability.

We’re really strict about who we let into our audiences and into Mailchimp. We even connect with services like ZeroBounce to make sure your audience is clean and your ducks are in a row. It makes no sense to use Mailchimp or any other tool if your emails aren’t going to reach the inbox.

What advice do you have for the procrastinator – someone who’s been collecting email addresses for a long time but hasn’t sent a single email yet? How do they get started?

Just do it. It’s a Nike line, I’m stealing their words, but that’s one area you can’t procrastinate in: keeping and using those email addresses. 

I can’t tell you how many times I sign up for something and don’t hear back for years, and I’m just like, Where did I meet them? Who is this again? Why do I need this? Maybe I don’t even have that problem anymore.

That’s a huge disconnect. It’s like going on a first date and never hearing from the person again – terrible experience, definitely no wedding bells for me. But I understand it does happen; we can’t be good at everything. You have to leverage your resources so you don’t waste that connection. 

Make sure your list is clean. You can use different tools and options, and maybe even connect with those folks personally before using a bulk service like Mailchimp. There are ways around it, but the best way is not to procrastinate. We don’t want to start off that way.

Related: Did you know you can clean your Mailchimp contacts much faster with ZeroBounce? Learn how you can start today. 

Test your email campaigns: “You never know what you don’t know.”

On your webinar with Emily Ryan and ZeroBounce’s Brian Minick, it seemed like both of you kept saying “test, test, test.” What do marketers miss if they don’t test?

Oh gosh, you miss out on the opportunity to uncover something really game-changing. For me, it’s the content. I love testing two different pieces of content. 

When I started out as a marketer at Mailchimp, I used to market our own workshops and webinars. I’d say, what if I give them everything they expect in one email, versus just one really strong CTA? You miss out on all that if you don’t test.

I don’t want to lose that opportunity, especially when I don’t have a lot of time. If I can A/B test in one little session in Mailchimp, I do it. You have to have that mindset of curiosity, and then you never know what you don’t know. You’re bringing in new people all the time, so you have to figure out what they need and want – and you can do that through testing. It’s a no-brainer these days.

Sometimes I get an email that surprises me, but I really respect it. For example, an author sent an email about a new book: “Hey guys, I know I said the book is gonna be ready this summer. It’s not. I’ll let you know.” That was the entire email. What do you think about that approach?

I think he’s being honest. I think he’s being human. That’s fair. It actually gets me thinking – I’m like, okay, what is he doing? What else is going on? It makes me curious that he sent that email. But I like that there’s nothing for me to do, just informing me what’s going on. I like that. I think that’s a really good example. I love that.

What makes it resonate so much is the honesty. Saying, “Here was my promise, here’s reality.” In a world where so many emails are written by AI or someone else, seeing something authentic really stands out. Why do you think authenticity matters so much in email marketing?

In a world where ChatGPT or someone else writes half these emails, seeing something authentic, like, “This is real life,” stands out. It’s human, like you said. 

Now I’m curious – what book did you sign up for? Send it my way, because that’s cool. I really like people being vulnerable about their businesses. That triggers something in me, makes me want to connect, to support more than anything.

I remember a restaurant in Atlanta that sent an email saying, “We’re struggling.” And that evening, I found myself there to get takeout. Why do you think vulnerability like that works so well in email marketing?

When you make yourself vulnerable and put it out there – “this is me, this is my business” – you show up in a way that others aren’t. That’s a competitive advantage. You’re showing up differently than anyone else doing the same thing, and you’re being authentic. I mean, you can’t ask for anything better than that. 

I know we all just want to belong. I’ve been reading Brené Brown all week, so maybe that’s why I got such a soft heart this morning.

Dare to be different and stick with it! People have a relationship with Freddie – the Mailchimp mascot. There are even rules about what can and can’t be said about him, like no mention of his diet or bananas. If you could spend an afternoon with Freddie doing anything, what would it be?

Man, probably doing a podcast like this – asking Freddie how it’s been these last 15, 20 years, being the face of Mailchimp. That’s no joke. I mean, I don’t play around with this. I’d probably just ask him, Oprah-style, What is life? How’s it been? How are you doing?

That’s probably because I’ve been around almost as long as Freddie has, and he is actually on Facebook, believe it or not! I sent a friend request – still waiting on that. But yeah, he’s been the face of Mailchimp for a long time. I think that’s what makes Mailchimp unique: fun and friendly. 

When you send an email, we’ve all seen the Freddie like monkey finger – so sweaty – and I was just like, that’s exactly how we feel. Everyone feels that taking the first step. That’s the real part of Mailchimp that I love.

What song would describe your relationship with email?

Oh gosh, you remember Black Eyed Peas? “Let’s Get It Started.” I think they did a Super Bowl thing. I was just hearing that at the supermarket. But that’s how I feel – just go, get in it, don’t overthink it. 

Just do it, send it, look at the results, and do it again. It’s really not that bad. It’s actually pretty fun once you start to jam, get in the groove, learn the tools, see the benefits, and see the connections and relationships. It’s like, yes, let’s go. Let’s go!

I’m probably the only person that feels that way. Probably me and Emily (editor’s note: email marketing expert Emily Ryan). That’s why we check in on each other all the time. But yeah, I love email. I could talk about it all day.

Best advice for email marketers: “Don’t overthink it”

My last question: what can anyone do today to make their email marketing, or just their day in general, better?

I would say don’t overthink it. There are so many parts of everything – life, email, all these different things – and it’s easy to get distracted. We talked about procrastination, but really, don’t overthink it. Learn from your mistakes, try it again, and get better.

We’ve been talking about experimentation this whole time. This isn’t your one-and-done, last-chance email. Reaching out, connecting with people – it’s just one of many touchpoints you can use. So just do it. Don’t overthink it. Try not to stress, and learn from it.

I will carry that with me today.

Me too. I need to listen to everything I’ve said today and just remind myself: don’t overthink it. You got this.

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As Jocelyn reminds us, there’s no point in sending emails if they don’t reach the inbox. Keeping your list clean protects your deliverability and helps you build real relationships. With the ZeroBounce + Mailchimp integration, you can validate your contacts in minutes — so every send counts.

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